Clinton visit

[Caerlonie]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/3218577 ... isit#share Interesting story on the upcoming visit of US secretary of state,and the security involved.It seems odd to me that the no-guns policy is waived for them,just shows that the law is not the law when it comes right down to it.If the govt here were consistent they would apply the same rules to her, as all other visiting foreign dignitaries.

[LexusB2200]

Ha, the person who said the American security personnel are the only ones who bring weapons into our country doesn't have a clue what they are talking about. I've personally seen MP5ks, Pistols and various other bits of weaponry under the jackets of "security personnel" protecting people such as the prime minister of Indonesia, Nigeria - you name it.

ITS COMMON PRACTICE FOR THEM TO GET WAIVERS TO BRING THEIR WEAPONS INTO THE COUNTRY FOR CLOSE PROTECTION. Everybody does it.

[N320]

I believe you are right Lexus, however the point is that the rule of law is supposed to apply evenly to all people in the country. The rulers have a different set of laws that apply to them. This must change. Most rulers want or have complete gun bans or severe restrictions while they enjoy 24/7 armed protection. Clinton is one of these hypocrites. She wants to ban guns for everyone but sociopaths like her.

Consider how different the retirement plans are for the rulers who get full retirement after 6 years "on the job"! They vote themselves raises and perks while raising the money for their wages at gunpoint.

[Atomrally]

We'll all equal - just some are more equal than others.....

[Caerlonie]

Ha, the person who said the American security personnel are the only ones who bring weapons into our country doesn't have a clue what they are talking about. I've personally seen MP5ks, Pistols and various other bits of weaponry under the jackets of "security personnel" protecting people such as the prime minister of Indonesia, Nigeria - you name it.

ITS COMMON PRACTICE FOR THEM TO GET WAIVERS TO BRING THEIR WEAPONS INTO THE COUNTRY FOR CLOSE PROTECTION. Everybody does it.

The point here is that NOBODY IS SUPPOSED TO BE DOING IT!.The last time a Clinton (Bill) came here the Police commissioner stated publically that there was NO provision under NZ law for foreign security personnel to be armed,and yet somehow the rules have got bent and it has happened.We have been told the prohibition of anyone but the Police here to be armed,is in the interests of the public safety.Well if that is the case then the rules should be followed,not ignored when pressure is applied from foreigners,who want to have their own rules in our country.

[mde]

If there is no provision in the laws for an exception this means that someone other than parliment has decided that they can override what is in the law.

We've previously seen judges explain that it is parliment that makes the law and nobody else.

I wonder who is authorising people to break the law?

[CT]

if its this much of a concern to you all. next time you see anyone but a nzpo carrying a firearm call the cops. if they do nothing feel free to make a citizens arrest.

aside from that what can any of us do when the police willingly fail to enforce the law?

EDIT: although I wonder what provisions there are for forien security staff to be tempory New zealand police officers...
or how is it the singapore army can come here with their guns and train...they are not covered under the arms act either

[V1coy68]

EDIT: although I wonder what provisions there are for forien security staff to be tempory New zealand police officers...
or how is it the singapore army can come here with their guns and train...they are not covered under the arms act either[/quote]

And what an awesome beast their 155 mm PRIMUS is!!!! Have anyone here been next to one? They are HUGE!!! For a country the size of Lake Taupo they make some damn good weapons!


Im sure the above quote was meant to be tongue in cheek (i hope) so/but i will bite......

NewZealand and Singapore have a great relationship going back years. We were there in WW2 and rebuilt houses and infrastructure damaged by Japanese bombing runs, There are houses in Singapore ( Neesoon, Sembawang etc) that Kiwis rebuilt that to this day are never allowed to be painted anything but black and white, The same in the harbour , Definatly up until the mid 90s(dont know about if it still happens?) If you or anyone of us were to sale into the harbour in our pleasure craft, If all the wharfs were taken up with US aircraft carriers, they would move one out of the way for you as a kiwi. They hold alot of respect for NewZealand . I think it is only fair to host them as NZ has spent ALOT of time in Singapore over the years with their own weapons training, for years in a row at times(Dieppe camp), and in Malaya/Malaysia (Terendak camp) which is why we alternate with them holding EX Suman Warrior with the Malaysians. But again, Im sure your aware of why they are allowed to come here with their weapons and train. And thank the lord above they do

[Caerlonie]

Defence force personnel are not covered by the Arms act when on duty,they have their own rules,so no issue with singapore troops having weapons here for training purposes, if they are doing whatever they are doing on defence land alongside our forces.No problem with that, as has been mentioned,the defence force here has a good working relationship with the Singaporeans and has done for quite some time.Quite different to foreign security personnel going armed in public here,that is what I was referring to.

[Caerlonie]

If there is no provision in the laws for an exception this means that someone other than parliment has decided that they can override what is in the law.

We've previously seen judges explain that it is parliment that makes the law and nobody else.

I wonder who is authorising people to break the law?

I don't think it was the Police breaking the rules,rather when clinton (Bill) came political pressure was put on them to wave the rules as the yanks said "no guns,no visit" and the govt here caved in and let them have their way,contrary to NZ law about such matters.Pretty sad when the govt does not even have the stones to insist foreigners obey our laws.

[mde]

If there is no provision in the laws for an exception this means that someone other than parliment has decided that they can override what is in the law.

We've previously seen judges explain that it is parliment that makes the law and nobody else.

I wonder who is authorising people to break the law?

I don't think it was the Police breaking the rules,rather when clinton (Bill) came political pressure was put on them to wave the rules as the yanks said "no guns,no visit" and the govt here caved in and let them have their way,contrary to NZ law about such matters.Pretty sad when the govt does not even have the stones to insist foreigners obey our laws.

The simple solution to make it all legal would be to pass legislation allowing designated people to be able to carry firearms in appropriate situations to cover when people like Clinton visit.

[JayDee]

The simple solution to make it all legal would be to pass legislation allowing designated people to be able to carry firearms in appropriate situations to cover when people like Clinton visit.

The Arms Act had that very 'solution' written into it - was repealed in about 1998 ...
Have a look at the current Legislative Page - NZ Govt. It is noted in the Act, if I remember correctly.

[Phil]

Bill Clinton had his own armed close protection during APEC in 1999 because the Arms Act was temporarily amended to allow it - for ALL the APEC leaders, not just the US. The clauses inserted in the Act expired (from memory) on 1 Sept 1999.

[LAH]

We'll all equal - just some are more equal than others.....

Nice one, I wonder how many people got it?

[JayDee]

... Orwellian.

Though I have always thought it should be: All of us are equal - just many are LESS equal!